What People Are Commenting
Heretical Council & Future of the Church
Vatican II: Heretical or Ambiguous?
The reply you gave to S.W. regarding Vatican II: "The book In the Murky Waters denounces Vatican II as ambiguous, not as heretical. There is a difference: A council is heretical when it clearly denies one or more points of the Catholic Faith. A council is ambiguous when it is confused in its teaching and, consequently, opens the door for errors. Vatican II belongs to the last category."
Quote from Lumen gentium (n. 15) of Vatican II: "The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter.".
The truth: If anyone rejects any dogma of Christian faith he goes against the dogma and loses Christian faith.
How can anyone be a Christian without Christian faith and with anti-Christian faith, TIA? How can ungodly heretics and schismatics be adorned with holy Christian name?
Are those unfortunate baptized who became Mohammedans or atheists still Christians, are they both Mohammedans and Christians (or both atheists and Christians) in the same person and at the same time, TIA? For their baptism cannot be removed from them, the mark of baptism remains forever.
As you can see, TIA, Vatican II is clearly heretical and not only an ambiguous Council, and you have departed from the truth regarding the character of Vatican II. Correct your grave error.
Heretical council Vatican II and the eternal consequence called Hell for blind obedience to its heresies must be the content of The Third Secret of Fatima.
We are glad to start by agreeing with you in one point: Heretics and schismatics do not deserve the name of Christians. To call them Christians, however, is not heresy, it is an imprecision of language. Catholic and Christian are synonymous. When a Catholic calls a Protestant a Christian, he certainly makes a concession to ecumenism, but he does not directly incur heresy.
The same ecumenical language could be found in many documents coming from American Catholic milieus before Vatican II. It reflected a bad tendency, but, as far as we know, the use of this designation per se was never considered a heresy. So, we agree that the Council should not have used the term Christian to address heretics and schismatics. Such usage indirectly endorsed the pretensions of the Protestants. It should not have done so; it creates confusion.
This said, we believe that you missed the point on the excerpt you quoted. You should have analyzed the first part instead, the one you did not put in bold: “The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked…” Without knowing to what degree Lumen gentium committed to the position of the heretics and schismatics, no one can make an objective judgment.
What the document says is that the Church is linked in many ways… Which ways? It does not say. We can easily imagine a variety of ways:
All of the three affirmations can be included in that text. Number 1 is an assertion that is completely acceptable. Number 2 is not recommended; Pius XI told Catholics not to enter into this kind of common action with heretics and schismatics, but it is not a heresy. Number 3 is a heresy.
- The Church is linked with heretics and schismatics when she recognizes that all are human beings;
- When she works with them in natural disasters; cooperates with them in environmental issues, social issues, international peace efforts, etc.;
- When she pretends that all religions lead to eternal salvation and works with them toward the installment of a Pan-religion.
When there are three possible meanings for a statement, and only one is heretical, we normally say that the statement is ambiguous. This is what the text you quoted is.
Those “unfortunate baptized who became Mohammedans or atheists” are what we normally call apostates. They were not addressed in that text of Lumen gentium. Your speculation in this regard also seems a little off track.
We are sorry, but the conclusion is that your analysis is not objective. We wish you a better performance next time.
TIA correspondence desk
May I Print Your Articles?
Dear Fellow Traditional Catholics,
First, allow me to thank and congratulate you on the very important and far reaching work you are doing for Holy Mother Church. Our support and our prayers are with you.
Secondly, I would like to ask your permission to print some of the articles that you have posted on your website. My parents are without internet access, and I would like very much to be able to share your articles with them. They also are staunch traditional Catholics who have made, and continue to make, heroic efforts to keep the Faith in these times of apostasy. If you will allow me to print and share your articles with them, I know that they will greatly benefit from them.
Be assured of our goodwill and prayers for the success of your work. God bless you all, and may our Blessed Lady keep you all safe in her Immaculate Heart.
United in our Holy Faith,
Thank you for your support and principally for your prayers. We are much obliged to you for them.
You may print a few copies of the articles you want. We are glad to contribute in this way to confirm your parents in their good position.
TIA correspondence desk
What Do You See Happening?
I've been reading your columns for years now, and appreciate so much your constant, candid acknowledgement of the truth. Thank you so much for staying firm, so we are informed.
After reading your most recent article "Jewish Influence Grows in the Conciliar Church" I couldn't help but wonder what will happen to the conciliar church in the years ahead before Our Lady triumphs? We already appear to have two churches. One traditional and the other basically attached to the heretics.
Also troubling is the fact that "traditionalists" don't support one another. If Traditionalism, in reality, has to go "underground" in order to survive, won't we need unity? How can we expect to cope without unity? Along with this, of course, is the appearance that the United States will soon fold too.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts on these issues.
Thank you SO much,
You don’t know how much we appreciate your encouragement and what it means to us. We are very obliged.
At the end of Volume V, Animus Delendi II, of his Collection on the Council, Mr. Guimarães analyzes the future that is unfolding for the Conciliar Church: a Pan-religion that comes from the union of different confessions in order to serve the socialist unification of the world. He distinguishes two matrixes for this Pan-religion: one takes its model from Buddhism, another from Judaism. It is a chapter that we imagine will fully answer your question. We recommend that you read it.
It is sad that Traditionalism is not united, indeed. But we believe that the main problem is not to lack unity, but to lack agreement on what is true. Without this, no union is possible.
How can we unite with some branches of Traditionalism that are longing for a restoration of Fascism or Socialism? We would embrace them today, and tomorrow they would lead us into a trap. A time of trial will show who’s who.
How can we agree with other branches that imagine themselves at the apex of orthodoxy when in reality they are deeply influenced by ex-Protestants who cannot remain humbly quiet for one decade to cleanse their mentality from their centuries-old errors and vices? To embrace them would be to embrace the Protestantism they have not yet abandoned. Again, time and the fire of suffering will show who is who.
We hope these considerations will be useful to you.
TIA correspondence desk
Posted May 17, 2011
The opinions expressed in this section - What People Are Commenting -
do not necessarily express those of TIA
Related Topics of Interest
Is the Council under Suspicion of Heresy?
Is Vatican II Heretical or a Manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
My God, My God, What Did the Council Do?
Please, Don’t Call Protestants Christians
The Consequences of Vatican II
Related Works of Interest
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