Objections
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TIA’s Film Has Wrong Affirmations
& Biased Data
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TIA’s Film Has Wrong Affirmations
We bring to the attention of our readers two discussions that TIA's latest video Our Lady of Good Success: Our Hope for the Future generated on Youtube.
The first objector – Frei Tiago of São José – is a known priest in Brazil who pretends to be conservative and is attracting many youth who are taking stands against the abuses happening in the Church.
The second is a long-winded objector who writes under a pseudonym in an attempt to prevent the spontaneous spreading of TIA's film, which is being promoted by readers not linked to us. A reader who sent the film to Gloria TV along with another reader respond very well to the objector.
Attacks Fr. Isaac Relyea, New York
Find the original polemic in the comment section here
Frei Tiago de São José:
TIA,
How can you say that the Church teaches heresies and the Pope has a diabolical sense?
If we see that, we can conclude that this is not the Church and Francis isn’t a true Pope!
TIA responds:
Frei Tiago de São José,
I. With regard to your objection on why Fr. Relyea mentioned that heresies are being taught:
1. According to the doctrine of the Church, whoever preaches universal salvation – all religions lead to eternal salvation – is a heretic.
This heresy was condemned by Pope Pius IX (here), Pope Eugene IV (here) Pope Pius XI
(here) and Pope Gregory XVI (here) among many others.
2. Now then, all the Conciliar Popes preached universal salvation, especially Pope Francis. So, it is accurate to say that they are heretics, unless you deny the previous doctrine of the Church.
II. Regarding the part in which you concluded that if he is a heretic then he is not Pope, the conclusion is not necessarily true.
1. History registers several Popes that taught heresy and continued to be Popes. (See here and here)
2. Theologically speaking, the question is also open to discussion.
See The Theological Hypothesis of a Heretic Pope by Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira in English (here) and in Portuguese (here).
See also the opinion of St. Thomas, St. Robert Bellarmine and others (here).
III. Regarding calling the Pope diabolical, if you reach the above conclusion (I. 1, 2.), it is open to any Catholic to make his own qualification, because actually the Devil is behind all heresies.
We hope your objections are answered.
Cordially,
TIA Media
Find the original polemic in the comment section here
Live Mike's defense:
Our Lady of Good Success has enjoyed the Official Approbation of Catholic Church for approximately 410 years since the first approval was given by the Bishop of Quito, Salvador Ribera Avalos, O.P. in 1611.
Alex A's objection:
Start by questioning your own bias then question the biases of Marion Horvat. In fact, discern the biases of all concerned with the alleged apparitions. Then ask yourself, Which is, or what is, the easiest way of cementing in the minds of indigenous and pagan peoples, the validity of your own belief system?
From my own recollection of the story, the original group of nuns to Ecuador is from Spain. A country which already had a similar church approved apparition of Our Lady of The Good Event/Good Success. (The latter title became more popular following Pope Paul V's endorsement of the apparition.)
Then there is the question of missing historical documents, plus the question of time-lapse between the alleged apparitions and the so-called official record of the alleged events. Much has been made of the so-called incorrupt bodies of the original group of nuns.
Do you know of anyone who has actually seen the bodies? Yes, people have seen the place where they are claimed to be interned, but viewing the actual bodies? Permission to investigate the validity of the claim is refused.
All too often the two, Our Lady of Good Success, are confused in the minds of many adherents, and the missing historical documents add difficulty to any conclusive research. As for the Church's position of credence to the story, note that the Bishops prior to V2 did not have the final say. Rome did. Modern-day Bishops do not give any credence to the alleged apparitions. No doubt they too have their own bias.
Of course, the narrative of the alleged apparition(s) does allow itself to be interpreted as being a 'prophecy for our times', especially appealing to Traditional minded Catholics. One last comment, The life of President Gabriel Garcia Moreno is all to often high-jacked by conservative thinkers and historians to add credence to the narrative.
Note that the assassinated said President, was laid at the foot of the picture of Our Lady of Sorrows aka, Our Lady of Quito, aka Queen of Ecuador and not, as claimed by some, Our Lady of Good Success.
Live Mike's response:
I'm sorry but you have no power or authority to overturn the decision of the Bishop of Quito. God empowered the local ordinary of the diocese with the authority to make the decision of approbation or condemnation and that was accomplished correctly hundreds of years ago.
One's "Bias" has nothing to do with it. If you choose to not follow the messages of the approved apparition then that's your choice. The bishop's decision means that these messages are worthy of belief and not contrary to the faith. His is the authority who knows best in keeping with the principle of subsidiarity and tradition.
You, on the other hand, appear to be an agent who seeks to subvert, suppress or obfuscate the words of Our Lady critical of Freemasonry. Incidentally, you wouldn't happen to be a member of the brotherhood of the lodge... Would you?
Alex A's separate comment:
Very questionable. Discernment needed! And research!
Live Mike's response:
What facts have caused you to make such a statement? Please provide any titles, authors and or experts on the subject that can back up your claim that Our Lady of Good Success is, "Very questionable. Discernment needed! And research!"
Ave Crux also enters with a response:
Perhaps it's just that you haven't read the history of these apparitions, which have been fully approved by the Church.
Also, the seer of these apparitions and her co-foundresses are all incorrupt even after 400 years have passed since their deaths. I have a family member who has traveled to the monastery and seen the incorrupt bodies of Sister Marianna de Jesus Torres and the other foundresses of that monastery.
If you read the history, you will find that not only is there no cause for fear, but that each and every prophecy made over 400 years ago is being fulfilled precisely and to the letter (considered a proof of authenticity), just as recorded at the time of the apparitions in the late 16th and early 17th centuries....to include:
1) The foretold assassination of Garcia Moreno, President of Ecuador, as a martyr
2) The crisis of Faith during the 19th and 20th century and on
3) The total corruption of morals and customs during our time, including disregard for the Sacraments of Matrimony, Extreme Unction, Confession, leading to almost universal impurity and failed marriages
4) Desecration of the Blessed Sacrament and derision for the Priesthood...that bad priests would bring the contempt of the world upon good priests by their misdeeds.
5) Secular education that would lead to a loss of vocations and a loss of supernatural perspective in the formation of children, etc.
Read about the apparitions. The most beautiful promise of hope is contained in what Our Lady is said to have revealed to Sister Marianna....
She said: “Unhappy times will come wherein those who should fearlessly defend the rights of the Church will instead, blinded despite the light, give their hand to the Church’s enemies and do their bidding.
"But when [evil] seems triumphant and when authority abuses its power, committing all manner of injustice and oppressing the weak, their ruin shall be near. They will fall and crash to the ground."
Could there be any better description of where we find ourselves today? Especially as Our Lady foretold at that time -- over 400 years ago! -- that it would take place following upon the 20th Century.
Here is one link that lists some of the prophecies: here
Alex A's response:
Whatever!